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124824-new-to-nexusneed-some-insight
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Yes, but if you're looking at it from a CC perspective Esper CCs are powerful but on a rather long cooldown. Most times in this game, more interrupts/minute is better; one major exception would be PVP, where how you use your CC is even more important than in PVE, and where Espers are CC machines. Also keep in mind that Slingers are getting substantial CC changes in drop 5, which is out soonish. Some classes have more resource management than others; you should think about which class resource feels best to you. Obviously, spellsurge is a more hairy resource to manage than psi points; despite that fact, Espers have the more difficult rotation right now. Meanwhile, Engineers (you should think about it if you aren't wedded to being able to heal) have - in my opinion - the most interesting resource management of all classes in the game, though it doesn't really shine as such until 50. And that's for DPS; Engi tank resource management remains interesting and important, I'm not sure about slinger healers (though healer focus in general is really not a problem once they get a little gear - again, PVP is the exception here), though there's much less emphasis on psi point management for esper healers relative to DPS. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Fiskerton, I had been guessing Gate was more PvP oriented than PvE, which kind of saddens me. Im familiar with MoO, but it seems it goes away too quickly for me to Gate, whip around 180 degrees, and actually fire off any decent attacks before the mob is up on me again. Perhaps practice makes perfect! Slyjeff, Spellslinger in this game is what dual pistol classes have wanted to be for years. I can almost agree, game history has showed that usually the most troubled class is the one most mis-played or underestimated. I feel this might be the case with many Spellslinger out there. Doesn't take long in levels for me to see SS has a much steeper learning curve than any other class. I am looking forward to the Arcane Shock change, as it was one skill I thought really needed some love. Perhaps I underestimate Void Slip. On paper, it doesn't seem like a viable skill. In game with telegraphs all over the place...I see the bigger picture now. I've tried working with Flash Freeze and, again, the root doesn't seem to last long enough for me to get back enough from the mob AND fire off a couple hard hitting skills. Perhaps not my playstyle of skill. The long-ranged casted slow skill (forget the name) doesn't seem to help much either for what it needs to do. Again, this going back to my "why does it seem Spellslinger CC abilities are just meh at best) Szurke, Good to know CC is being a focus on Drop 5 for Spellslinger. They need it. Counting to 5 all the time I found could be a bit tedious at later levels with Esper, especially with many more rotations to worry about. Esper healing, surprisingly, doesn't seem to interest me. The need to toggle Spellsurge on and off was very daunting at first for Spellslinger, but I think it's a challenge Im willing to master rather than mastering the rotational count to number 5. Your post convices me to try out Engi again, although pet classes usually aren't my style. Resource management in a whole different way than Im used to! Naix, RoP is my best friend. I wouldn't have gotten a Spellslinger to level 15 without it, especially since Ive found a hobby of trying to solo kill rare mobs around the map. Great suggestion though, as I have been trying to build/play my Spellslinger as though he is the typical glass cannon. Summary of this thread and many posts, including yours, indicates that I should be trying to embrace Gate a little bit more! And thank you to everyone for the warm welcomes! Great community here! | |} ---- Turning around shouldn't take any time at all. Do you turn with A/D keys or with the right mouse button? If it's still too slow with the right mouse button, you should consider turning up your mouse speed. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yeah, being really good with Spellsurge is the mark of an excellent Spellslinger. You could say the same thing for a lot of builds in this game - Esper psi points, Engineer volatility, Stalker suit power, and Medic actuators - pretty much except for Warriors. That said, the skill cap on proper use of class resource is probably highest for Slingers and not too far behind for Engis. Compare this to rotational difficulty, which is likely highest for Espers. Engi resource management really begins to get interesting when you get your first T4 ability, most likely Bio Shell. Since it's a builder you can only use after 30 volatility, it means that the region of 0-30 volatility becomes extremely suboptimal (though note that the current best cleave spec does not use Bio Shell; the single target spec does however). What makes it special compared to the other classes is the Zone - 30-70 volatility is a region where we get fairly substantial buffs now, and more significant buffs in Drop 5; being in the Zone is itself a builder! The Zone means a player needs to maintain a balance of spenders and builders instead of simply getting resources and spending it - the closest Wildstar analogue I can think of is actually Medic healers, who often aim to stay ~250 focus. But it's quite demanding to do, and in the optimal single target DPS build it's a true joy. Dashing becomes a builder, which creates a high risk high reward playstyle that has no equal in this game. Of course the issue for you here is that these things don't happen until later; so I would read up on it and watch some videos before committing to Engi. As for Engis being a pet class: they are, but the majority of an Engineer's DPS or tankiness comes from the Engineer. Actually tank Engis generally don't take pets at endgame right now, and DPS Engi bots are very simple: one has an attack you want to use off cooldown but which doesn't trigger other cooldowns (~10% total DPS, Artybot) and the other is just used as a slight DPS increase filler (~2.5% total DPS, Diminisherbot). | |} ---- Fiskerton, I turn with the right mouse button. Although using the A/D keys have been useful to strafe or circle the mob in some cases. Love running around in a circle I suppose! Great tip! I'll adjust the mouse speed and do some Gate testing. Never thought of that..Thanks! styrm, Im guessing IGN means Ignite build? I've read into this and it seems this build is kind of a DoT build, which seems weird to me for a light armor class with bursty damage. I love DoT classes, but they never seem to find thier way into end game raids and such, as thier damage isn't instant gratification to most. I would like to, if I can, eventually remove Quick Draw from my rotation. It seems like a filler skill until your character is...filled out? I know there are AMPs that support the use of Quick Draw. Any info on this would be appreciated. I have encountered this "button smash get free from stun" mechanic and I agree, it's awful. By the time I notice Im stunned, move my finger to the right button (and trying to move around and attack the mob), the stun is almost gone. Once more, I see the viability of Void Slip. One button hit and move on with your day! Xlugon Pyro, Yes, this makes me feel better! I love burst damage classes that catch players off guard. If you aren't ready for a Spellslinger...you're dead...and I like that. Szurke, Thanks for all the helpful info on Engi mechanics and insight! I think my close range alt will definitely be an Engi, based on what you've said. One thing that I wonder about though is Engi can be tank or dps role. At DPS role, are they still close range? It seems many of thier skills can reach long range. Again, I love long range, so a heavy armor class at long range sounds really interesting to me. I see Engi's and Espers being viable pet classes, but not really properly implemented. Im surprised there isn't a pet build for Espers, considering all the Life Steal and spider attacks they have. Although there could be a reason, as pet builds tend to fall by the wayside damage-wise in end-game, which is what I belive you are mentioning with Engis. This disheartens me, as Engi's robots should be just as useable in-game as leveling up. If Engi pets aren't viable damage end-game, why have them as skills at all in the first place? To help level easier? pfft. | |} ---- ---- Actually Engis are a ranged class! Some of their spells are 20m, but quite a few of them are 30m. So not as long of a range as SS or Espers, but certainly not melee. Both DPS and Tanks have range; for tanks in particular this is what sets them apart. If you want a melee alt with interesting resource management, Stalker suit power is pretty interesting. Here's a very brief comparison of ranged classes: Engi: good DPS, good survivability, little raid utility Esper: good DPS, light armor, good raid utility Slinger: decent (buffed to good in drop 5) DPS, light armor, decent raid utility (buffed to good in drop 5) Generally Engis will do the most damage of the three in single target fights and Espers (sometimes Slingers) will do the most of the three in group fights. There is no pet build for either Engi or Esper; Esper pets are in the same class as WoW mage water elementals - that is, not enough to make them a pet class at all. Engi pets vary in usefulness. DPS Engis all take artybot (except in PVP usually), and diminisherbot is a nice filler for some builds; meanwhile tank bots are very situational (bruiserbot) or not worth the AMP points/LAS space currently (repair bot). Either way, it's not nearly as much of a pet class as WoW Hunters are. Engi pets only have two abilities: their auto attack and one on-use ability. As for viability - most of the "pets" in this game are viable in end-game PVE. Major exceptions would be the Engi tank bots. There just isn't any build that's actually centered on pets. And no problem, I like talking about Engis as you might be able to tell... ;) | |} ---- styrm, Thanks for the info on Ingite builds. I might play around with it, but I think a more bursty damage build for Spellslinger might suit me more. I think the great thing about DPS builds is that it's a constant battle for more power - verstility in builds makes it more interesting! Szurke, I've watched some videos of Engi tanking at range and it does look interesting. Perhaps one day pets will become more useful for group content. I dislike "use'em and ditch 'em forever" type skills such as the bots and spiders of the Engi and Esper, respectively. After taking many of you all's advice, I thought I'd give a brief summary of what I've found after some playing around: - Adjusting Button and Mouse Movement Speed 0.5 more each made a world of a difference on Gate and overall Spellslinger quality of life. Whipping around 180 degrees isnt an issue anymore after a few practices. I highly reccomend any new Spellslinger to make this game adjustment! - Drop 5 Spellslinger changes looks like many much needed issues will be addressed, which makes anyone more happy to play thier class. - Spellslinger is more about movement and placement rather than CC. Right spot: golden. Wrong spot: dead very quickly. Spellslingers need to understand and accept the fact that controlling the situation isn't the playstyle, but rather OWNING the situation. This is very very different than many other games and is probably one of the reasons why Spellslinger has a big learning curve. Hope this conversation has helped not only myself, but other newcomers. Thanks everyone! | |} ---- .... I'm just gonna save that. >_> | |} ---- Well pets are useful for group content and are part of the highest DPS rotations for Engi and Esper, as well as some support rotations (Engi tank leveling, Esper healing running the carrot heal or Warden, &c.). And Engi pets aren't really use em and forget em. But I understand that the pet style is very different from most other games' pet classes. By the way, have you considered using the Lockdown addon? If you don't need to click the ground or other players for anything, it's absolutely fantastic. Definitely reduces my right hand strain by a LOT and it's one of the reasons I can't go back to SWTOR besides the overall combat system. 180 degree turns are really easy using Lockdown. Yes, since slingers are light armor they need to be extra careful of telegraphs and so on - especially since one of their interrupts is so position-dependent (Gate). There are lots of reasons for the high skill cap for slingers; my impression is that proper spellsurge is definitely the greatest of these, though light armor certainly contributes. | |} ---- Szurke, I'll take a look at the lockdown addon. I don't click to move, I use WASD. Learned to ditch click to move once I came to this game. It's a thing of the past, imo. Is Spellsurge more difficult or less difficult to manage in group settings compared to solo content? I find solo content a bit hectic sometimes. But then again, I like to solo Settler bulletin board quests. | |} ---- I group content, as DPS, spellsurge is usually turned on, and then you let it fall of naturally at the bottom. Then you turn it back on later and let it fall of. This is for the IG spec. Not sure about others. But it isn't hard to manage. | |} ---- I didn't mean click to move, I meant how some spells in the game are ground-placement spells where you need to actually click the ground to place them (I think a slinger heal example is voidspring). Though click to move ain't great either ;) So my impression (don't hesitate to correct me) is that the IGN spec is good DPS, but the highest skill cap and DPS spec - arcane missiles - requires careful spellsurge management. | |} ---- It depends on how you play it. I don't run AM since I'm generally leading the raids, and the two specs do almost identical DPS. So I go for the simpler rotation in order to be able to focus on making sure everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing. And I'm still the top slinger DPS in the raid (and generally in the top 4 DPS slots depending on the fight). We do have one slinger who runs AM to make sure the boss has the debuff, and she does really good damage (close to me with similar gear). There are ways to eek out just a little more DPS by managing sure a little differently, but it isn't a huge amount. | |} ---- Sometimes you can get better DPS out of a simple build that theoretically does less DPS (on a dummy) than a complex one that does more theoretical DPS. I always opt for the practical build before the theoretical one. You try theoretical, but if it's not working because there's too much chaos, you simply need to stage into something you can manage. There is such a thing as too much build. | |} ---- Yep. And because so many of the slinger builds are close in dps, it really becomes about the one you can execute in the fight more than what looks best on paper. But someone has to run AM unless there's only one magic user in the raid. | |} ---- I worked my build last because there were so many warriors in the groups I was in that I didn't need power link. Now that I'm playing with less warriors, I might need to put it back on. | |} ---- ---- Even after reading the mod page I'm still in the dark on how this mod actually works. Do you use it, and if so, can you layman term if for me? | |} ---- I use it and love it. Basically, when you install it, you also install a script that runs with it that temporarily rebinds your mouse buttons when you toggle it on and off. So when lockdown is off, the mouse functions like normal, but when it is on, you can turn your character with the mouse and use the LMB and RMB as additional hotkeys. The action style of the combat really lends itself to using lockdown. Before I installed lockdown, I basically never took my finger off the RMB for any long period of time. | |} ---- That sounds like what I'm doing now. I'll give it a try! Thankya! | |} ---- ---- We had a slinger DPS who significantly outparsed the rest of our slingers and who ran AM. Of course, he was the kind of player who can keep track of more than a dozen things in his head at the same time, so it's not too surprising that he would run higher DPS - but based on his own words, it's definitely higher DPS than IGN. I do hear it's much more spellsurge management intensive to make it better than IGN though. On the other hand, it's nice to have a basic idea of what a class is like at endgame before you level it - particularly for the kinds of players who are willing to read pages of forum discussions and participate in the same in figuring out their class ;) Lockdown is hands down my single favorite addon! I actually don't use the LMB and RMB rebinding, though I have an MMO mouse so I don't really need it (or, in fact, some of the buttons on the side of the mouse...). Just the camera bind alone is amazing. I imagine those with fewer mouse buttons find that functionality much more useful! | |} ---- ---- ---- If you like toggling it on/off, there are specs for that. Basically, the slinger is very flexible and there are multiple ways to play it that can be good in a raid environment. The nice thing about gate is that because it's a stun, it means you get to keep more movement ability on your bar at all times. This is a luxury most classes don't get. You can also use spacial shift as a stun, and I often get stuns with arcane shock if I time it right (have to cast it right before the mob does a big attack). In the next drop, arcane shock will function as a normal stun, and you'll be able to tier it up for 2 IA removal if you need it. | |} ----